Please listen to Vera Sharav. I don't see how anyone can call her a Nazi or a terrorist: "Hello Fellow Freedom Loving People,
To say it has been quite a year is an understatement. I first want to thank each of you for your support in our mission to awaken people to an evil agenda. Each of you has made an impact by seeking truth and rejecting blind obedience. Our community has grown significantly because we have demonstrated the power of asserting our freedom for overcoming fear.
The launch of my documentary, Never Again Is Now Global, has opened thousands of eyes to the danger of blind compliance. I continue to receive messages from people all over the world. But millions more need to be reached. We are a very small team in NYC. Until some angels will come forth to help organize a promotional campaign, your sharing of the documentary with friends will continue to be helpful to spread the righteous word.
Currently I'm in the process of filming an additional episode to Never Again Is Now Global because the murderous global agenda has exploded in the Middle East. Most of us are heartbroken about the human casualties and the fomented global hate-mongering propaganda.
The tragedy of Gaza is that an orchestrated global agenda is carried out by corrupt leaders who have betrayed both the Israeli and Palestinian people. Both are victims whose lives are being sacrificed. If humanity is to survive, we must awaken people to the true enemies whose objective is the demise of civilization."
Etana, your own govt. has tried to kill your people with an injection for
about 3 years now. Steve Kirsch has a whistleblower on the kill rate of the covid shot from the Israeli MOH whose data he will be revealing on Nov. 30th. Your govt., like every other govt. on earth, is a terrorist against their own people. They aren't trying to protect you. They aren't trying to save you. They want most of us dead. War is another method, that is all. Please don't fall for this. Please hold your own govt. to account for their war crimes.
funny how both the Israeli and Palestinian governments have called for total eradication of the other side in very public statements.
based on the settler ideology and war crimes committed by Israel's government, it's super easy to label both them and Hamas as terrorist organizations. main difference is that one of them is given weaponry and military support by the US government to kill tens of thousands of civilians on the other side of the concentration camp fences.
to hell with war criminal governance and #standwithALLthecivilians
There is a difference! Hamas is calling for the genocide of ALL Jews, not even just in Israel; Israel is calling for eradication of a terrorist GROUP of "Palestinians". Think about it; there is NO comparison!
Since you don't even know the difference between: "Kill the terrorists, and save the innocent" and: "Kill the Jews, none of them are innocent"... it's not worth trying to explain the other errors in your mercifully short rant.
It was absurd enough that women are called Nazis for wanting female - only spaces, but I've seen several posts comparing Israelis and Jewish people to Nazis for "oppression" and "genocide" of inhabitants of Gaza.
What type of genocide sees the allegedly targeted population doubling during about 2 generations?
Well said! The evil has definitely spread throughout our universities and Congress. The ‘Squad’ spreads evil every single time they are handed a microphone. College Professors indoctrinate their students and push radical activism. This evil has pushed hate and our country is doomed if we don’t take it seriously and reverse course.
THAT depends entirely on the Gazans' willingness to learn. We tried in Iraq too, with no success; Islam is too incompatible with that kind of governance or prosperity.
I see two acts of terrorism before us right now: the slaughter of innocent Israelis by Hamas maniacs and the slaughter of innocent Palestinians by Israel's neocon leadership. We will only have a chance of sanity when we recognise ALL evil acts as evil - whoever commits them.
Well put! As a veteran of military service, I was about to nail that war issue,
when I saw your comment. The "rules" are different, even the moral rules, in a war, which is why there are "rules of engagement".
IDF is the ONLY military I have ever heard of, at any time in history, who warns enemy people to clear an intended target area, even to the point of calling on their personal phones! Conversely, Hamas will shoot any who try to flee, because THEY hide behind their women and children, in the expectation they can then blame Israel for the deaths and injuries incurred when they do hit an intended target, to destroy munitions or delivery platforms hidden behind those "victims", in defense of the Israeli people!
So if a foreign military warns you to leave the area you have lived in all your life, you'd be fine with this. I'm a military veteran too and if I behaved like you suggest, I'd be in front of a war crimes tribunal.
If you want to learn about war crime definitions - and it appears that you certainly need to - then I suggest you look up the various Geneva convention protocols. You'll find that Israel is in contravention of most of them. I'm of Jewish descent and even I can see that what Israel is doing in Gaza is at the very least ethnic cleansing. Your blindness means you are condoning war crimes. I hope that when this is over the Hamas terrorists behind Oct 7th are put on trial - alongside the criminals who ordered the indiscriminate killing of 14000 innocent Gazan civilians.
The definition of "dead" is pretty easy. The numbers are laughable coming from Hamas - they were already caught lying about the Al-Ahli Hospital 'atrocity'.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...."
What really matters is who makes a habit of endangering Gaza civilians. The side that dropped leaflets and made personal phone calls telling them to move, before dropping bombs? Or the side that tried to make them stay - at gunpoint - so they could serve as human shields?
Even the Iranian puppet Al Jazeera reported how Israel went to great lengths to evacuate civilians, who were clearly being used by Hamas as human shields. They were reduced to arguing what KIND of "human shields" they were, and how the video footage of the huge Hamas command center and weapons stockpiles under Al Shifa Hospital didn't actually mean anything was there. But even if there was, Israel was still 'violating' international laws. They quoted 'experts' who said so.
The international laws of war are not rocket science - anyone can understand them:
"The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.” - 4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.
"Under no circumstances shall medical units be used in an attempt to shield military objectives from attack." - Additional GC Protocol 1977, Article 12(4).
"The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations." - ibid., Article 51(7)
"Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations constitutes a war crime." - 1998 Rome Statute, Article 8(2)
When faced with this dilemma, the law does not require the attacker to call off the attack, but only to follow "the rules on distinction, proportionality and precaution."
Israel has documented its compliance with all 3, and it was verified by foreign military analysts. Guess you never heard about that.
And another one that will be sited at Netanyahu's Crimes Against Humanity trial in the Hague: Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” It also prohibits the “individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory”. Israel is pushing Palestinians out of their land in Gaza and also injecting its population into the West Bank.
"Under international law, occupation occurs when a country takes over the sovereign territory of another country."
No nation had sovereign rights over this land for millennia, and the last to have it were the Jews. Back then they were called Judeans and Israelites, and the land was named after them.
"Palestine" OTOH was never a country with a history or land borders... not anywhere. Before 1948, the Arabs considered the whole region part of "greater" Syria.
If you want to quote Article 49 about illegal occupations, talk to Jordan (west bank, half of Jerusalem), Syria (Golan) and Egypt (Gaza). They each invaded land that was never theirs, and they all stayed there from 1949-1967. But no one cared about THAT occupation.
They did forcibly deport indigenous residents who were Jews, which was illegal for occupying powers. But no one cared.
They also colonized the occupied territories with their own people, whose only citizenship was Jordanian, Egyptian or Syrian. But no one cared.
Only when Israel claimed sovereignty, based on Jewish history literally written in stone (archeology), only then did anyone start caring.
The world keeps claiming that Israel is violating international law by allowing Jews to live in their ancestral lands - which at most are classed legally as "disputed" lands. But it's not based on any law. Nor is that claim applied to any other land disputes in the world (there are currently at least 150).
And now this is my last response to your string of trendy but fake accusations. I'm sure you have more up your sleeve, but I'm tired of doing your homework for you.
It's sad to see someone who is obviously intelligent in complete denial about ethnic cleansing merely because it is "their" side involved. Israel is clearly in breach of the fourth Geneva Convention because of the hundreds of children killed by Israeli air strikes. It is also in breach of international law because of its total blockade of Gaza which has deprived innocent civilians of food, fuel and medicine. Now you can try and explain to me how what Israel is doing is any different from what the Serbs did in Bosnia or the Nazis did in Warsaw. Shame on you!
Actually, I only need to quote Geneva Conventions.
They allow for blockade of food and medicines during wars. The only obligation on the blockading side is to provide them for children (under 15) and pregnant or nursing mothers.
And Article 23 says that even this obligation is cancelled if there are "serious reasons for fearing:
(a) that the consignments may be diverted from their destination,
(b) that the control may not be effective, or
(c) that a definite advantage may accrue to the military efforts or economy of the enemy through the substitution of the above-mentioned consignments for goods which would otherwise be provided or produced by the enemy or through the release of such material, services or facilities as would otherwise be required for the production of such goods."
---------
Israel knows that (a) is a sure thing -- Hamas will divert whatever food and meds are allowed into Gaza for their own use. The whole world (other than you) knows that they have already been doing it.
So the ones who have "deprived innocent civilians of food" in Gaza are the rulers of Gaza.
And yet, Israel is doing the job that Hamas won't do, monitoring the situation and allowing food aid in - contrary to your accusation - to prevent civilian disaster.
FYI, the GCs say nothing about any obligation to allow fuel into a besieged area during a war. It's understood that the enemy forces would use it for their war effort.
As far as 'ethnic cleansing' and 'hundreds of children killed by Israeli air strikes' -- those are Hamas claims, pulled out of thin air but repeated as fact, without asking for documentation. And all documentation to the contrary supplied by Israel is dismissed as suspect by people who don't really want to know.
People like you.
No matter how much proof presented to you, you will go on believing that Israel is behaving like the Nazis, because that's what you want to believe.
So go yell 'shame!' at someone else who doesn't know that your righteous indignation is built on threadbare anti-Israel mantras rather than reality.
If Israel is to carry out a total reeducation of Gaza's "evil culture" and the people it has "infected," based on an analogy with post WWII USA and Germany/Japan, then the outcome had better be a prosperous Gaza with a constitutional system of human rights (which AFAIK even Israel itself lacks), an advanced industrial economy in Gaza, globally competitive college system, mostly unfettered global investment into Gaza, land ownership open to all residents of Gaza as well as corporations from most foreign nations (such as China or Saudi Arabia), a socialized healthcare system, ongoing economic trade surpluses with Egypt and Israel itself, and, indeed, even a local ability to build armaments (which Germany and Japan now have).
But I'm deeply skeptical that this outcome will occur.
As far as I can tell, Israel seems to be willing and capable of carrying out the "fire bombing of Dresden" part of the analogy, but not the hard and expensive follow up work of rebuilding a free and prosperous Gaza for the current people of Gaza. (And for that matter, Gaza does not resemble pre-war, highly advanced industrialized economies like Germany and Japan. Gaza has high unemployment and no air force or navy. Gaza lacks even a functional airport).
My personal guess, for what it's worth, is that Israel's model during the occupation years will be more like that of the Soviet Union and East Germany in the post WWII years. The Soviet Union, after breaking the back of Nazi Germany's army and suffering its own massive troop losses in the process, severely punished East Germany by physically removing much of its infrastructure, leaving East Germany's people impoverished for generations. East Germany's puppet government was repressive and authoritarian, and characterized by an extremely severe and thorough domestic surveillance agency.
Either that or Israel will simply double down on its effort to kill or deport every remaining resident of Gaza. However this would be a clear break with the analogy to WWII USA vs Germany/Japan, since remaining residents of those countries were not forced to leave their countries after the allied powers won the war.
As I follow the logic of this, I begin to think that Netanyahu's analogy with WWII, the USA, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan is a very, very poor analogy. I cannot take it seriously.
The USA invested $13 billion in post-Nazi \Europe. The USA invested $2.2 billion in rebuilding post-imperialist Japan. Both efforts resulted in economic rebirth and peaceful societies.
Palestine - which has 2% of Japan's land mass and 4% of its population - has received (so far) **$40 billion** from the world. That's not counting the benefits from its neighbor Israel (water, electricity, cellphone infrastructure, emergency medical care, employment).
After 30 years, it has produced no economy except missiles, tunnel smuggling, and salaries for terror attacks. No peace can be expected unless the Pals succeed in erasing the entire Jewish state "From the River to the Sea".
And for that outcome, Israel gets all the blame and the Pals get none.
Now that the Gazans have massacred over 1000 Israeli Jews in the most brutal ways possible, Israel must MAKE them peace-loving and prosperous, without their consent or cooperation.
Because the losers don't want a "two-state solution" or coexistence with Jews, but the world has decided to pretend that they do.
So you're right - the aftermath of WW2 is indeed "a very, very poor analogy".
But one correction - Israel never said a word about "killing or deporting every remaining resident of Gaza". It's the Palestinians who said they want to do that to the Jews, "from the River to the Sea".
Please tell me you have adjusted those three figures ($13 billion, $2.2 billion and $40 billion) for inflation so that they can be compared directly. It looks like the first two are mid 20th century dollar amounts and the last one is a late 20th and/or 21st century dollar amount. That comparison sure seems misleading.
And Israel absolutely HAS said multiple words that indicate a desire to kill or deport the remaining residents of Gaza. Look at these statements by Israeli government officials or former government officials over the last couple of months:
In a Nov 13 Wall Street Journal editorial, Likud member Danny Danon and Yesh Atid member Ram Ben-Barak said that world leaders have a “moral imperative” to help the people of Gaza by allowing a “limited number” of refugees that wanted to relocate from the war-torn region into their countries.
Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter: “We are now rolling out the Gaza nakba” (That one by itself should suffice to indicate the intention to push the people out of Gaza)
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on October 9: "We are imposing a complete siege on the city of Gaza. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly"
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, on Nov 27: “There are 2 million Nazis in Judea and Samaria...” (What can anyone do with Nazis but kill them?)
And a 10 page document published by a group known as the "Intelligence Ministry" within the Israeli government actually recommended the forcible and permanent transfer of all 2.2 million Gaza residents to Egypt's Sinai desert: https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/
In October, an unnamed defense official told Israel's Channel 13 "Gaza will eventually turn into a city of tents. There will be no buildings."
On October 13, Giora Eiland, former head of the National Security Council: "Israel needs to create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, compelling tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands to seek refuge in Egypt or the Gulf … The entire population of Gaza will either move to Egypt or move to the Gulf” https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sju3uabba
Finally, consider not just the words, but the actions of Israel so far. According to a UN estimate, Israel's bombing campaign has destroyed or damaged nearly half of all the housing. And because of drastic limitations on water supplies, food and other basic services, a humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding there. People continue to die in large numbers. Almost a million have no place to live. Hospitals no longer have the capacity to serve the population.
If Israel's intention is to keep Gaza residents in Gaza, why is Israel destroying the basic necessities for those 2.2 million people to keep living there?
Etana has it right. This is becoming a conflict of good vs evil. The Evil side has expressed its own goal of total submission of the non Muslim world to them. The elites in the west continue to ignore and buy them off They will only stop until the good finally realizes that evil can not be accommodated just as it understood that Naziism could not be accommodated or Imperial Japan could not be Accommodated. Both had to be totally and completely destroyed to achieve peace. Israel has the same thing now with Hamas and the free west has it with Islam. One side has to be destroyed Right now it’s the free west via our spineless and soulless elites who attempt to curry favor with people who want us dead.
We must support Israel because Yahweh has fulfilled His promises and will continue to do so, nations and individuals dishonor Israel to their own destruction. This terrorist act and war is revealing hearts and the incessant active spiritual warfare. Genesis 12:2-3 "And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Attitudes of gratitude and ingratitude By Cal Thomas (C) 2023 TRIBUNE CONTENT AGENCY, LLC.
"The height (or depth) of ingratitude is being exposed in large demonstrations across the world. As the anti-Israel and anti-Jewish protesters say vulgar things about the Jewish people and call for the elimination of the democratic Jewish state, they might benefit from having the contributions of Jews explained to them. Those contributions have contributed to a better society and world.
It was the Jews who gave us the Talmud, or Old Testament, which is full of information about God and wisdom for how we can live successful lives. A Jew – Jesus of Nazareth – is introduced in what Christians call the New Testament and lays out His plan for the salvation of all who believe in Him.
Given their small percentage of the population, Jews have excelled in many fields for which everyone should be grateful. A short list can’t cover them all.
There was physicist Albert Einstein, Jonas Salk (creator of the first polio vaccine), Albert Sabin (oral polio vaccine), Selman Waksman (Streptomycin and coined the word antibiotic), Gabriel Lipmann (discovered color photography), Baruch Blumberg (discovered the origin and spread of infectious diseases), G. Edelman (discovered chemical structure of antibodies), Briton Epstein (identified the first cancer virus), Maria Meyer (structure of atomic nuclei), Julius Mayer (discovered law of thermodynamics), Sigmund Freud (father of psychotherapy), Benjamin Disraeli (British prime minister), Isaac Singer (inventor of the sewing machine), Levi Strauss (largest maker of denim jeans), Joseph Pulitzer (established the famous prize that honors journalists, literature, music and art), Ben Hecht (journalist, playwright, novelist).
Broadway would be dark and musical theater dead without the contributions of Jews. These included George and Ira Gershwin, Oscar Hammerstein, Richard Rodgers, Lorenz Hart, Kurt Weill, Irving Berlin, Leonard Bernstein, Betty Comden and Adolph Green, Jule Styne, Neil Simon, Stephen Sondheim, Marvin Hamlisch, Cy Coleman, John Kander and Fred Ebb (Cabaret, Chicago), and perhaps some lesser known talents like Charles Strouse (Bye Bye Birdie, Annie) and Stephen Schwartz (Godspell, Wicked).
Jewish artists created beauty, sometimes out of tragedy. These include Marc Chagall, whose work hangs in the Israeli Knesset. There are many other Jewish painters and sculptors.
If you enjoy weekends, credit the Jews (see Exodus 20:8). Other contributions made by Jews to society and culture include the census, animal rights, asylum, equality under the law, our courts, crop rotation, monetary damages, and public schools, though they might not take credit for them today given their declining quality and growing antisemitism.
A few demonstrators calling for “free Palestine” and “from the river to the sea,” have been interviewed and have demonstrated little to no knowledge about the history of Judaism or the establishment of the Jewish state. Ignorance allows dictators and terrorists to pursue their objectives, while a properly informed public preserves and protects what is important to a free and civilized society.
If you believe such things are important, offer some gratitude, not hostility, to the Jews."
Um... You were on a roll there, 'til you hit the Talmud. Remember the Pharisees and Sadducees Jesus so often scolded? THEY, down trough the centuries, are who gave us the Talmud! What the Children of Israel gave us is the Torah, the Law and the Prophets, without the distorting rabbinic commentaries, and THAT is the Biblical OT!
The Jews have earned more Nobels than any other people in our world, yet they are a tiny fraction of the total population. Why do you suppose that is? Other, of course, than 1 of the reasons they have been so hated throughout history. They also gave us the 1 thing NO other people could give us, 1 of the reasons for which they were "chosen": a Kinsman Redeemer, who bought us back from the slavery to sin, when we come to Him n repentance, with His own shed blood!
It should be obvious to anyone and everyone (except the mentally deficient) that all who reside in Israel are good, honest, innocent, and most importantly, superior, human beings who ought never be questioned, challenged, doubted, or contested in any way whatsoever. The World and humanity is far better for having them in attendance. Anyone of Palestinian heritage or supporting Palestine in any way is less than human, unworthy of sympathy, caring, compassion, empathy, or deserving of life.
Please listen to Vera Sharav. I don't see how anyone can call her a Nazi or a terrorist: "Hello Fellow Freedom Loving People,
To say it has been quite a year is an understatement. I first want to thank each of you for your support in our mission to awaken people to an evil agenda. Each of you has made an impact by seeking truth and rejecting blind obedience. Our community has grown significantly because we have demonstrated the power of asserting our freedom for overcoming fear.
The launch of my documentary, Never Again Is Now Global, has opened thousands of eyes to the danger of blind compliance. I continue to receive messages from people all over the world. But millions more need to be reached. We are a very small team in NYC. Until some angels will come forth to help organize a promotional campaign, your sharing of the documentary with friends will continue to be helpful to spread the righteous word.
Currently I'm in the process of filming an additional episode to Never Again Is Now Global because the murderous global agenda has exploded in the Middle East. Most of us are heartbroken about the human casualties and the fomented global hate-mongering propaganda.
The tragedy of Gaza is that an orchestrated global agenda is carried out by corrupt leaders who have betrayed both the Israeli and Palestinian people. Both are victims whose lives are being sacrificed. If humanity is to survive, we must awaken people to the true enemies whose objective is the demise of civilization."
Etana, your own govt. has tried to kill your people with an injection for
about 3 years now. Steve Kirsch has a whistleblower on the kill rate of the covid shot from the Israeli MOH whose data he will be revealing on Nov. 30th. Your govt., like every other govt. on earth, is a terrorist against their own people. They aren't trying to protect you. They aren't trying to save you. They want most of us dead. War is another method, that is all. Please don't fall for this. Please hold your own govt. to account for their war crimes.
funny how both the Israeli and Palestinian governments have called for total eradication of the other side in very public statements.
based on the settler ideology and war crimes committed by Israel's government, it's super easy to label both them and Hamas as terrorist organizations. main difference is that one of them is given weaponry and military support by the US government to kill tens of thousands of civilians on the other side of the concentration camp fences.
to hell with war criminal governance and #standwithALLthecivilians
There is a difference! Hamas is calling for the genocide of ALL Jews, not even just in Israel; Israel is calling for eradication of a terrorist GROUP of "Palestinians". Think about it; there is NO comparison!
Since you don't even know the difference between: "Kill the terrorists, and save the innocent" and: "Kill the Jews, none of them are innocent"... it's not worth trying to explain the other errors in your mercifully short rant.
netenyahu and several upper echelon government lackeys explicitly stated they intend to eradicate all Palestinians and not just hamas.
besides, with your obvious errors in an even shorter rant, I have no interest in your "explanations" anyway.
"netenyahu and several upper echelon government lackeys explicitly stated they intend to eradicate all Palestinians and not just hamas."
Proof?
When you call them on their lies, they either quietly disappear. Or else they insult you first before they disappear.
You are absolutely correct, Etana. Thank you for your courage in saying in out loud.
It was absurd enough that women are called Nazis for wanting female - only spaces, but I've seen several posts comparing Israelis and Jewish people to Nazis for "oppression" and "genocide" of inhabitants of Gaza.
What type of genocide sees the allegedly targeted population doubling during about 2 generations?
What kind of "genocide" warns people to leave intended target areas?
Well said! The evil has definitely spread throughout our universities and Congress. The ‘Squad’ spreads evil every single time they are handed a microphone. College Professors indoctrinate their students and push radical activism. This evil has pushed hate and our country is doomed if we don’t take it seriously and reverse course.
THAT depends entirely on the Gazans' willingness to learn. We tried in Iraq too, with no success; Islam is too incompatible with that kind of governance or prosperity.
I see two acts of terrorism before us right now: the slaughter of innocent Israelis by Hamas maniacs and the slaughter of innocent Palestinians by Israel's neocon leadership. We will only have a chance of sanity when we recognise ALL evil acts as evil - whoever commits them.
Your definitions of "terrorism", "innocent" and "evil" need more work.
And looking at your moral equivalence of "maniacs" with "neocons", it's going to be a real uphill struggle.
A LOT more work! I doubt he knows what Nazis really are, or "neocons" for that matter!
War crimes are war crimes, whoever commits them. As GK Chesterton said, "Moral issues are always terribly complex for someone without principles"
He also said, “War is not ‘the best way of settling differences;’ it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you.”
And for some strange reason, Israel doesn't want Hamas to settle the Palestine question for the Jews.
Looks like you need to work on your "war crimes" definition too.
Well put! As a veteran of military service, I was about to nail that war issue,
when I saw your comment. The "rules" are different, even the moral rules, in a war, which is why there are "rules of engagement".
IDF is the ONLY military I have ever heard of, at any time in history, who warns enemy people to clear an intended target area, even to the point of calling on their personal phones! Conversely, Hamas will shoot any who try to flee, because THEY hide behind their women and children, in the expectation they can then blame Israel for the deaths and injuries incurred when they do hit an intended target, to destroy munitions or delivery platforms hidden behind those "victims", in defense of the Israeli people!
So if a foreign military warns you to leave the area you have lived in all your life, you'd be fine with this. I'm a military veteran too and if I behaved like you suggest, I'd be in front of a war crimes tribunal.
If you want to learn about war crime definitions - and it appears that you certainly need to - then I suggest you look up the various Geneva convention protocols. You'll find that Israel is in contravention of most of them. I'm of Jewish descent and even I can see that what Israel is doing in Gaza is at the very least ethnic cleansing. Your blindness means you are condoning war crimes. I hope that when this is over the Hamas terrorists behind Oct 7th are put on trial - alongside the criminals who ordered the indiscriminate killing of 14000 innocent Gazan civilians.
I'm sure you're semantic interpretations make those 14000 dead Gaza civilians feel much better.
The definition of "dead" is pretty easy. The numbers are laughable coming from Hamas - they were already caught lying about the Al-Ahli Hospital 'atrocity'.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...."
What really matters is who makes a habit of endangering Gaza civilians. The side that dropped leaflets and made personal phone calls telling them to move, before dropping bombs? Or the side that tried to make them stay - at gunpoint - so they could serve as human shields?
Even the Iranian puppet Al Jazeera reported how Israel went to great lengths to evacuate civilians, who were clearly being used by Hamas as human shields. They were reduced to arguing what KIND of "human shields" they were, and how the video footage of the huge Hamas command center and weapons stockpiles under Al Shifa Hospital didn't actually mean anything was there. But even if there was, Israel was still 'violating' international laws. They quoted 'experts' who said so.
The international laws of war are not rocket science - anyone can understand them:
"The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.” - 4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.
"Under no circumstances shall medical units be used in an attempt to shield military objectives from attack." - Additional GC Protocol 1977, Article 12(4).
"The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations." - ibid., Article 51(7)
"Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations constitutes a war crime." - 1998 Rome Statute, Article 8(2)
When faced with this dilemma, the law does not require the attacker to call off the attack, but only to follow "the rules on distinction, proportionality and precaution."
Israel has documented its compliance with all 3, and it was verified by foreign military analysts. Guess you never heard about that.
And another one that will be sited at Netanyahu's Crimes Against Humanity trial in the Hague: Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” It also prohibits the “individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory”. Israel is pushing Palestinians out of their land in Gaza and also injecting its population into the West Bank.
Here we go again.
Law professor Eugene Kontorovich long ago demolished your GC Article 49 argument. He repeats the facts every year or so.
https://www.law.gmu.edu/news/2019/israeli_settlements_do_not_violate_international_law_according_to_eugene_kontorovich
"Under international law, occupation occurs when a country takes over the sovereign territory of another country."
No nation had sovereign rights over this land for millennia, and the last to have it were the Jews. Back then they were called Judeans and Israelites, and the land was named after them.
"Palestine" OTOH was never a country with a history or land borders... not anywhere. Before 1948, the Arabs considered the whole region part of "greater" Syria.
If you want to quote Article 49 about illegal occupations, talk to Jordan (west bank, half of Jerusalem), Syria (Golan) and Egypt (Gaza). They each invaded land that was never theirs, and they all stayed there from 1949-1967. But no one cared about THAT occupation.
They did forcibly deport indigenous residents who were Jews, which was illegal for occupying powers. But no one cared.
They also colonized the occupied territories with their own people, whose only citizenship was Jordanian, Egyptian or Syrian. But no one cared.
Only when Israel claimed sovereignty, based on Jewish history literally written in stone (archeology), only then did anyone start caring.
The world keeps claiming that Israel is violating international law by allowing Jews to live in their ancestral lands - which at most are classed legally as "disputed" lands. But it's not based on any law. Nor is that claim applied to any other land disputes in the world (there are currently at least 150).
And now this is my last response to your string of trendy but fake accusations. I'm sure you have more up your sleeve, but I'm tired of doing your homework for you.
It's sad to see someone who is obviously intelligent in complete denial about ethnic cleansing merely because it is "their" side involved. Israel is clearly in breach of the fourth Geneva Convention because of the hundreds of children killed by Israeli air strikes. It is also in breach of international law because of its total blockade of Gaza which has deprived innocent civilians of food, fuel and medicine. Now you can try and explain to me how what Israel is doing is any different from what the Serbs did in Bosnia or the Nazis did in Warsaw. Shame on you!
Actually, I only need to quote Geneva Conventions.
They allow for blockade of food and medicines during wars. The only obligation on the blockading side is to provide them for children (under 15) and pregnant or nursing mothers.
And Article 23 says that even this obligation is cancelled if there are "serious reasons for fearing:
(a) that the consignments may be diverted from their destination,
(b) that the control may not be effective, or
(c) that a definite advantage may accrue to the military efforts or economy of the enemy through the substitution of the above-mentioned consignments for goods which would otherwise be provided or produced by the enemy or through the release of such material, services or facilities as would otherwise be required for the production of such goods."
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Israel knows that (a) is a sure thing -- Hamas will divert whatever food and meds are allowed into Gaza for their own use. The whole world (other than you) knows that they have already been doing it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-western-officials-agree-hamas-keeping-gaza-food-fuel-for-itself-ny-times/
So the ones who have "deprived innocent civilians of food" in Gaza are the rulers of Gaza.
And yet, Israel is doing the job that Hamas won't do, monitoring the situation and allowing food aid in - contrary to your accusation - to prevent civilian disaster.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-theres-no-lack-of-food-water-and-humanitarian-supplies-in-gaza/
FYI, the GCs say nothing about any obligation to allow fuel into a besieged area during a war. It's understood that the enemy forces would use it for their war effort.
As far as 'ethnic cleansing' and 'hundreds of children killed by Israeli air strikes' -- those are Hamas claims, pulled out of thin air but repeated as fact, without asking for documentation. And all documentation to the contrary supplied by Israel is dismissed as suspect by people who don't really want to know.
People like you.
No matter how much proof presented to you, you will go on believing that Israel is behaving like the Nazis, because that's what you want to believe.
So go yell 'shame!' at someone else who doesn't know that your righteous indignation is built on threadbare anti-Israel mantras rather than reality.
If Israel is to carry out a total reeducation of Gaza's "evil culture" and the people it has "infected," based on an analogy with post WWII USA and Germany/Japan, then the outcome had better be a prosperous Gaza with a constitutional system of human rights (which AFAIK even Israel itself lacks), an advanced industrial economy in Gaza, globally competitive college system, mostly unfettered global investment into Gaza, land ownership open to all residents of Gaza as well as corporations from most foreign nations (such as China or Saudi Arabia), a socialized healthcare system, ongoing economic trade surpluses with Egypt and Israel itself, and, indeed, even a local ability to build armaments (which Germany and Japan now have).
But I'm deeply skeptical that this outcome will occur.
As far as I can tell, Israel seems to be willing and capable of carrying out the "fire bombing of Dresden" part of the analogy, but not the hard and expensive follow up work of rebuilding a free and prosperous Gaza for the current people of Gaza. (And for that matter, Gaza does not resemble pre-war, highly advanced industrialized economies like Germany and Japan. Gaza has high unemployment and no air force or navy. Gaza lacks even a functional airport).
My personal guess, for what it's worth, is that Israel's model during the occupation years will be more like that of the Soviet Union and East Germany in the post WWII years. The Soviet Union, after breaking the back of Nazi Germany's army and suffering its own massive troop losses in the process, severely punished East Germany by physically removing much of its infrastructure, leaving East Germany's people impoverished for generations. East Germany's puppet government was repressive and authoritarian, and characterized by an extremely severe and thorough domestic surveillance agency.
Either that or Israel will simply double down on its effort to kill or deport every remaining resident of Gaza. However this would be a clear break with the analogy to WWII USA vs Germany/Japan, since remaining residents of those countries were not forced to leave their countries after the allied powers won the war.
As I follow the logic of this, I begin to think that Netanyahu's analogy with WWII, the USA, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan is a very, very poor analogy. I cannot take it seriously.
The USA invested $13 billion in post-Nazi \Europe. The USA invested $2.2 billion in rebuilding post-imperialist Japan. Both efforts resulted in economic rebirth and peaceful societies.
Palestine - which has 2% of Japan's land mass and 4% of its population - has received (so far) **$40 billion** from the world. That's not counting the benefits from its neighbor Israel (water, electricity, cellphone infrastructure, emergency medical care, employment).
After 30 years, it has produced no economy except missiles, tunnel smuggling, and salaries for terror attacks. No peace can be expected unless the Pals succeed in erasing the entire Jewish state "From the River to the Sea".
And for that outcome, Israel gets all the blame and the Pals get none.
Now that the Gazans have massacred over 1000 Israeli Jews in the most brutal ways possible, Israel must MAKE them peace-loving and prosperous, without their consent or cooperation.
Because the losers don't want a "two-state solution" or coexistence with Jews, but the world has decided to pretend that they do.
So you're right - the aftermath of WW2 is indeed "a very, very poor analogy".
But one correction - Israel never said a word about "killing or deporting every remaining resident of Gaza". It's the Palestinians who said they want to do that to the Jews, "from the River to the Sea".
Please tell me you have adjusted those three figures ($13 billion, $2.2 billion and $40 billion) for inflation so that they can be compared directly. It looks like the first two are mid 20th century dollar amounts and the last one is a late 20th and/or 21st century dollar amount. That comparison sure seems misleading.
And Israel absolutely HAS said multiple words that indicate a desire to kill or deport the remaining residents of Gaza. Look at these statements by Israeli government officials or former government officials over the last couple of months:
In a Nov 13 Wall Street Journal editorial, Likud member Danny Danon and Yesh Atid member Ram Ben-Barak said that world leaders have a “moral imperative” to help the people of Gaza by allowing a “limited number” of refugees that wanted to relocate from the war-torn region into their countries.
Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter: “We are now rolling out the Gaza nakba” (That one by itself should suffice to indicate the intention to push the people out of Gaza)
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on October 9: "We are imposing a complete siege on the city of Gaza. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly"
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, on Nov 27: “There are 2 million Nazis in Judea and Samaria...” (What can anyone do with Nazis but kill them?)
And a 10 page document published by a group known as the "Intelligence Ministry" within the Israeli government actually recommended the forcible and permanent transfer of all 2.2 million Gaza residents to Egypt's Sinai desert: https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/
In October, an unnamed defense official told Israel's Channel 13 "Gaza will eventually turn into a city of tents. There will be no buildings."
On October 13, Giora Eiland, former head of the National Security Council: "Israel needs to create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, compelling tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands to seek refuge in Egypt or the Gulf … The entire population of Gaza will either move to Egypt or move to the Gulf” https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sju3uabba
Finally, consider not just the words, but the actions of Israel so far. According to a UN estimate, Israel's bombing campaign has destroyed or damaged nearly half of all the housing. And because of drastic limitations on water supplies, food and other basic services, a humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding there. People continue to die in large numbers. Almost a million have no place to live. Hospitals no longer have the capacity to serve the population.
If Israel's intention is to keep Gaza residents in Gaza, why is Israel destroying the basic necessities for those 2.2 million people to keep living there?
Etana has it right. This is becoming a conflict of good vs evil. The Evil side has expressed its own goal of total submission of the non Muslim world to them. The elites in the west continue to ignore and buy them off They will only stop until the good finally realizes that evil can not be accommodated just as it understood that Naziism could not be accommodated or Imperial Japan could not be Accommodated. Both had to be totally and completely destroyed to achieve peace. Israel has the same thing now with Hamas and the free west has it with Islam. One side has to be destroyed Right now it’s the free west via our spineless and soulless elites who attempt to curry favor with people who want us dead.
Hamas IS Islam, fundamental Islam, as were ISIS, Al Qaedaand are Al Nusra, Boko Haram, etc! THEY are following Muhmmad's teachings and eamples
We must support Israel because Yahweh has fulfilled His promises and will continue to do so, nations and individuals dishonor Israel to their own destruction. This terrorist act and war is revealing hearts and the incessant active spiritual warfare. Genesis 12:2-3 "And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
https://calthomas.com/2023/11/thanks-to-the-jews/
Excerpts:
Attitudes of gratitude and ingratitude By Cal Thomas (C) 2023 TRIBUNE CONTENT AGENCY, LLC.
"The height (or depth) of ingratitude is being exposed in large demonstrations across the world. As the anti-Israel and anti-Jewish protesters say vulgar things about the Jewish people and call for the elimination of the democratic Jewish state, they might benefit from having the contributions of Jews explained to them. Those contributions have contributed to a better society and world.
It was the Jews who gave us the Talmud, or Old Testament, which is full of information about God and wisdom for how we can live successful lives. A Jew – Jesus of Nazareth – is introduced in what Christians call the New Testament and lays out His plan for the salvation of all who believe in Him.
Given their small percentage of the population, Jews have excelled in many fields for which everyone should be grateful. A short list can’t cover them all.
There was physicist Albert Einstein, Jonas Salk (creator of the first polio vaccine), Albert Sabin (oral polio vaccine), Selman Waksman (Streptomycin and coined the word antibiotic), Gabriel Lipmann (discovered color photography), Baruch Blumberg (discovered the origin and spread of infectious diseases), G. Edelman (discovered chemical structure of antibodies), Briton Epstein (identified the first cancer virus), Maria Meyer (structure of atomic nuclei), Julius Mayer (discovered law of thermodynamics), Sigmund Freud (father of psychotherapy), Benjamin Disraeli (British prime minister), Isaac Singer (inventor of the sewing machine), Levi Strauss (largest maker of denim jeans), Joseph Pulitzer (established the famous prize that honors journalists, literature, music and art), Ben Hecht (journalist, playwright, novelist).
Broadway would be dark and musical theater dead without the contributions of Jews. These included George and Ira Gershwin, Oscar Hammerstein, Richard Rodgers, Lorenz Hart, Kurt Weill, Irving Berlin, Leonard Bernstein, Betty Comden and Adolph Green, Jule Styne, Neil Simon, Stephen Sondheim, Marvin Hamlisch, Cy Coleman, John Kander and Fred Ebb (Cabaret, Chicago), and perhaps some lesser known talents like Charles Strouse (Bye Bye Birdie, Annie) and Stephen Schwartz (Godspell, Wicked).
Jewish artists created beauty, sometimes out of tragedy. These include Marc Chagall, whose work hangs in the Israeli Knesset. There are many other Jewish painters and sculptors.
If you enjoy weekends, credit the Jews (see Exodus 20:8). Other contributions made by Jews to society and culture include the census, animal rights, asylum, equality under the law, our courts, crop rotation, monetary damages, and public schools, though they might not take credit for them today given their declining quality and growing antisemitism.
A few demonstrators calling for “free Palestine” and “from the river to the sea,” have been interviewed and have demonstrated little to no knowledge about the history of Judaism or the establishment of the Jewish state. Ignorance allows dictators and terrorists to pursue their objectives, while a properly informed public preserves and protects what is important to a free and civilized society.
If you believe such things are important, offer some gratitude, not hostility, to the Jews."
>The only language evil people speak is physical might
Evil people speak other languages in addition to physical might.
Otherwise, thank you for the excellent reminder of the dangers of a culture becoming captured by evil ideology.
https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/death-and-destruction-in-gaza?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1753552&post_id=139711017&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=1a9m4&utm_medium=email
Propagandized, insane, genocidal, elitist, pedantic.
Um... You were on a roll there, 'til you hit the Talmud. Remember the Pharisees and Sadducees Jesus so often scolded? THEY, down trough the centuries, are who gave us the Talmud! What the Children of Israel gave us is the Torah, the Law and the Prophets, without the distorting rabbinic commentaries, and THAT is the Biblical OT!
The Jews have earned more Nobels than any other people in our world, yet they are a tiny fraction of the total population. Why do you suppose that is? Other, of course, than 1 of the reasons they have been so hated throughout history. They also gave us the 1 thing NO other people could give us, 1 of the reasons for which they were "chosen": a Kinsman Redeemer, who bought us back from the slavery to sin, when we come to Him n repentance, with His own shed blood!
Sometimes the terrorists wear velvet gloves, 'til they have control of a land, and the majority don't see what's really happening'til too late.
It should be obvious to anyone and everyone (except the mentally deficient) that all who reside in Israel are good, honest, innocent, and most importantly, superior, human beings who ought never be questioned, challenged, doubted, or contested in any way whatsoever. The World and humanity is far better for having them in attendance. Anyone of Palestinian heritage or supporting Palestine in any way is less than human, unworthy of sympathy, caring, compassion, empathy, or deserving of life.
/satire